A few years ago, I
connected with Kurush Dalal and later his wife Rhea. We hit it off from our
first conversation on the phone and today they have come to be very important
to the fabric of my life, foodie and otherwise. All that time ago, I had called
to ask if I may meet his mother to talk about Parsi food for my book. I never
did get to meet her (she passed on in March 2010) and that is a regret right up
there with the one I have about not documenting my Dadi’s recipes. But what I
did manage was a very insightful email interview of Katy and Kurush that was never
published by the magazine that commissioned it. I just saw on Facebook that today
would have been Katy Dalal’s birthday. So here is the interview, as a tribute
to her and a thank you to Kurush and Rhea for being part of my life. You both
truly bring joy to my heart and the lives of everyone you meet. May we meet and eat a whole
lot more in 2012 and the years to come!
The name Katy Dalal is
well known amongst culinary circles. Famous for her stellar cookbooks on Parsi
cuisine (Jamva Chaloji 1 an 2), the fascinating book on Pulaos and Biryanis the
delicious Seafood Fiesta, Dr Katy Dalal is also distinguished in academic circles, having
won many awards and completed a Ph.D on Archaeology from Pune University. A
specialist on Achaemenion history, she has also taught Ancient Indian Culture
in different Mumbai Colleges. Her rich legacy has been very ably shouldered by
her son Kurush Dalal who is an archeologist by training and a caterer by
profession. As a caterer he specializes in (but does not limit himself to)
Parsi Cuisine while juggling a teaching career at the Mumbai University and at
the Jhunjhunwala Colleges.
Katy Dalal on her Career and Kurush
Tell
us a bit about your background.
Katy Dalal - I was born
and brought up in Bandra which was then a peaceful, green suburb of Mumbai. I
attended St. Joseph’s Convent over there and after passing my S.S.C. with a
first class, I joined the DNH National College, Bandra. I was extremely
interested in History and I secured the highest total of marks in World History
in the Intermediate Arts exams conducted by the University of Bombay for which
the University conferred a prize and a Scholarship and my college awarded me a
gold medal. I was very happy because I felt this was my first step to Egypt in
whose ancient history, religion and culture I was extremely interested then. I
joined the St. Xavier’s college for my B.A. degree and enrolled at the Heras
Institute of Ancient Indian Culture and History. There I met an extremely
sympathetic vice-principal father John Correia Afonso who advised me that the
first step would be to go meet Dr. H. D. Sankalia (the premiere Archaeologist
in India) at the Deccan College, Pune. Dr. Sankalia advised me that it would be
preferable for me to first learn all that Indian Archaeology had to entail
before I went to another country to study there. He also advised me to join his
M.A. classes, which I did. At that time
I was the only female student at Deccan college.
I did my M.A. from Deccan College with a First Class First
and then wrote a Ph.D. Thesis titled “Prehistoric Pottery Industries along the
(lost) Saraswati River of the Great Indian Desert”. I explored the Ghaghar
riverbed from Nohar almost upto the Indo-Pak border in Bikaner. I was
fantastically lucky as I managed to find pre-Harappan material at several
sites. In India pre-Harrapan material had only been found by Sir Mortimer
Wheeler in 1946 below the ramparts at Harappa. My finds were exact copies of
his. I had also found a strange ware excised internally and externally and
another type of ware which was later on told to be 3000 to 4000 B.C. old. After
this Egypt took a back-seat to India. I became totally involved in exploring
the pre-Harappan culture and the thesis took me ten years to complete.
Your career is so far away from cooking, when and how
did food and its exploration become important?
Katy Dalal - By the time I completed my thesis, I had
fallen in love with and married an extremely clever young Merchant Marine
Officer. I taught Ancient Indian Arts and Culture at various Mumbai Colleges -
S.I.E.S., Wilson, St. Xavier's & K.C. I used to travel with my husband on
Merchant Liners and all the Officers used to want me to cook special meals for
them which they thoroughly enjoyed. On one trip I suffered a retinal detachment
and that put paid to my teaching in college. As I was at home, people would
request me to cook for their parties. One fine day I realised that instead of
twiddling my thumbs at home, I could make a business out of my cooking I
developed a large Tiffin business. I took catering contracts at the Free Masons
Hall, the P.V.M. Gymkhana and the Ripon Club and thus began to learn more about
cooking different dishes. I used to love decorating the food and always felt
that food looked and tasted better when arranged properly.
What made you decide to write your first cookbook?
How did you go about working on your books? Did you travel, meet
people? Spend hours in your own kitchen?
Katy Dalal - Ideas for a book had been hovering in my head
since before marriage. I was appalled when I heard young girls say that they
couldn't boil eggs or make rice. I decided that the young women of the
community were becoming too westernized in their food habits and so I wrote a
book on Parsi cuisine titled "Jamva Chaloji". It contained everything
a woman should know when she first goes to her husband's house. It was a
thumping success and every copy was sold within the first six months! The
publishers reprinted the book several times. This was followed by five other
cookery books. Writing the book was very simple. I am descended from a long
line of excellent cooks. The first being my great grandmother Soonamai, who
lived in Gujarat, the second my paternal grandmother, Cooverbai followed by her
two daughters Hilla and Khorshed and my mother Piroja. I had observed all that
they were doing during my childhood and would jot down some recipes on pieces
of paper. In fact I distinctly remember discussing an unusual sauce to be had
with mutton cutlets once - we were discussing how to make a papaya sauce which
I had never eaten before. As the years passed I developed a great interest
in writing (academically) and cooking (professionally). The logical culmination
of this was my first cookbook, Jamva Chaloji. Among the many other reasons
were the loss of Parsi culinary traditions due to modernisation and the
creation of nuclear families, the lack of a simple, authentic Parsi cookbook,
and the needs of young Parsi brides in India and abroad.
Would you share some of your most pleasurable
moments during writing your cookbooks?
Katy Dalal - Forming the recipes in my head and watching in
pleasure as they turned out quite exactly as I remembered them to have tasted.
What about YOU, the cook? What are your favorite foods to cook
with?
Katy Dalal - Coloured peppers, Rawas (Indian
Salmon), jumbo prawns, Pomfrets- which Parsis love, French herbs, and cream.
What's your favorite recipe to cook?
Katy Dalal - Golden Pepper Prawn Pulao which is my own creation.
This is a pulao which has yellow peppers stuffed with prawns in them and looks
lavish and tastes quite delicious. It is a great hit with my guests and my
family likes it too. This is something I make at home. Of the dishes that I
have served at weddings and large functions is a beautiful salad made with
deboned Rawas, butter, pineapple pieces, herbs, and other condiments. This
salad is served reconstructed in the shape of the fish with its head and fins
(boiled, of course) and covered in 'scales' made from sliced cucumbers. The
base for the salad is a sumptuous Russian salad laid on a mirror and with
carved decorative vegetables, etc. It looks absolutely superb!!!
Do you have any favorite cooking gadgets or utensils?
Katy Dalal - My kitchen is choc a bloc with
gadgets collected from all over the world, some I have bought, some my darling
husband brought back for me from his travels and many more are gifts from
family and friends. However, the my two most indispensible gadgets are a little
electric chopper which chops just one onion if I need it, and my moule legume. Of course my ‘masala pata’
is something I cannot imagine my kitchen without.
What is the most memorable dish you have ever eaten?
Katy Dalal - The Camembert Dariole at the Zodiac
Grill at the Taj hotel in Mumbai is something I will never forget the taste of.
Another unforgettable meal was at the Grand Hotel in Kao Hsuing (Taiwan) where
I ate the best Chinese food ever.
Do you have an amusing kitchen incident to share with us? One
unforgettable Kitchen blunder?
Katy Dalal - Many years ago my cook was making
Machchhi no sahs, a typical fish preparation of the Parsis. I, of course, was
not there while she was cooking. Later as I was heating up the meal before we
all gathered for it, I noticed that the sauce was frothing quite strangely and
even exuberantly! A little questioning revealed that the silly woman had used
detergent powder (Nirma) instead of the flour she was supposed to have done.
She mistook the yellow detergent powder for besan!
What is your best cooking tip for a novice cook?
Katy Dalal - Always read a recipe twice. Collect
all the ingredients in front of you in order of use. Use your own instinct to
adjust the recipe to your family’s taste, And of course, use your own judgement
too while adding salt, spices, cooking oils, etc.
Are you happy that Kurush has
carried on your legacy ?
Katy Dalal - I am enormously happy that he turned out to be
such a good cook who could, at a glance would tell us how many people could eat
out of a certain portion of rice or mutton or whatever ingredient was at hand.
This judgement has never failed him. Academically he is extremely sound. He is
a good explorer, excavator and has also done a PhD on the Iron Age in India.
What is your favourite dish cooked by Kurush?
Katy Dalal -Pork Chops which we had very recently at his house
for lunch. He had also once done an entire leg of ham boiled in beer
(with spices) and roasted with honey.
What is your best cooking tip for a novice cook?
Katy Dalal -Always read a recipe twice. Collect all the
ingredients in front of you in order of use. Use your own instinct to adjust
the recipe to your family's taste, And of course, use your own judgement too
while adding salt, spices, cooking oils, etc.
Kurush Dalal on his legacy and Katy Dalal
Kurush, Tell us a bit more about
yourself
Kurush Dalal - I am an archeologist by training and a caterer
by profession. I grew up in a house filled with books and the flavours of
myriad foods both Indian and Western. I spent four years boarding in Panchgani,
did my HSC in Science, my BA in AIC & History from Mumbai University, my MA
(in Archaeology) and PhD from Deccan College, Pune University. In the course of
my studies I saw the real India of the small towns and villages as I travelled
its length and breadth on Archaeological trips. I lived and ate with people at
all these places and truly imbibed the flavours of India not just the feast-day
preparations but the day to day sustenance of the people on whose backs India
stands. On the way I met and married my wife and finally met my match in the
kitchen.
Did you always plan to follow in your mothers
footsteps and choose a career in gastronomy?
Kurush Dalal - No, when I was little I wanted to be an
astronaut and as I grew up and went to school and college I was
fascinated by both Astrophysics and Nuclear physics, sadly I failed my HSC in
Physics (of all things) and changed streams to Ancient Indian History. I was
always a part of Mum's catering business and had been helping with all aspects
since I was 11. When I first evinced an interest she made me a waiter's uniform
and put me to work at the lowest rung of the ladder at the Freemason's Hall.
Right through my college days (11th and 12th) I helped
with purchase and spent almost 5 mornings every week in the fish, meat
and vegetable markets, evenings were often spent on the job – catering at
various venues.
So, which is you favourite cookbook by your
mother?
Kurush Dalal - The first
one - 'Jamva Chaloji'. Not only because the title was my suggestion but
because it was a terrible need of the hour and has almost resurrected Parsi
gastronomy in Parsi homes both in India and abroad.
Would you share some of your most pleasurable
moments with your mother in the kitchen?
Kurush Dalal - Though I picked up a lot of my cooking skills in
my mother's kitchen I seldom cooked with her. Watching mum cook is often like
watching a very complicated stage performance. She is more often than not an
intuitive cook and I still remember the time when she taught a bunch of the
Taj's chefs Parsi cooking. They were flummoxed by 'a pinch' of this and 'a
handful' of that and would make her stop in mid-move and actually weigh the
various spices as she scooped them out of the jars.
What about YOU, the cook? What are your favorite foods to cook
with?
Kurush Dalal - I’m a very
moody cook. At home I like to cook all those things that I rarely get to cook
at work like pork, pork chops, hams, veal, and simple dals. At work my main
interests are sauces, dressings and starters since I feel these are often
ignored in India. I’m also a bit picky about my ingredients and like a kitchen
filled with complex, myriad and weird spices, condiments, vinegars, oils, etc.
What's your favorite recipe to cook?
Kurush Dalal - Pork
Chops marinated in a red wine vinegar with whole spices and demerara sugar,
grilled in olive oil and served with herbed cheesy mashed potatoes.
What is your favourite dish cooked by your mom?
Kurush Dalal - It's got to be her Dhan Dal and Kolmi no
Patiao with Parsi style Fried Fish and green coconut chutney.
Do you have any favorite cooking gadgets or utensils?
Kurush Dalal - My wooden spatulas, especially my hand
carved bamboo spatula from Nagaland, and my knives and steel.
What is the most memorable dish you have ever
eaten?
Kurush Dalal - This is a
difficult one. There are 4 dishes
actually: my dad’s prawn and tomato omlette, my mum’s dhan
dal and kolmi no patio, my wife’s
Bengali maangshor jhol and the fried
eggs my grandma (mum’s mum) used to make.
Do you have an amusing kitchen incident to share
with us? One unforgettable Kitchen blunder?
Kurush Dalal -During our courtship days my wife (to
be) once made a favourite dish (baked potato and onions in cheesy white sauce)
of her hostel days. Halfway through she realised we had run out of milk so she
merrily substituted it with diluted condensed milk …… little realizing its
sugar content. The resultant dish was part main course and part dessert. It was
weird, strange and quite peculiar but we (a friend and I)quietly polished it
off. Nothing since has ever managed to top this.
Tell us some of the most
important cooking tips you learned from your mom?
Kurush Dalal -Two main things actually, patience with food and
the selection of only the finest ingredients, preferably personally
gathered/prepared/bought.
Is there a cookbook in you as well? Can we look
forward to something along those lines from your kitchen/pen? Anything else you
want to share with us?
Kurush Dalal -Most definitely, more than one, more than writing
a cookbook I feel a great need to collect recipes from specific geographical
zones and from specific religious groups and castes. There is a crying need to
put this down on paper and to record these traditions before they completely
die out due to our modern food habits. So my first book(s) will probably be
edited volumes or collections more than books filled with my own original
recipes, that I think will come later. In
the last 15 years or so there have been major upheavals in the eating patterns
and the food availability scenario in urban India. Whilst its really nice to
have non-Indian foods available in our restaurants this is sadly at the cost of
many a traditional style, the Irani Cafes, the Chilliya restaurants and the
Udipis are disappearing and with them is disappearing an entire chapter in the
food history of our country.
Gratitude, gyaan and LINKS
Thank you
Saee Koranne Khandekar of the blog Myjhola for allowing me to use the Pictures you
took of Kurush and Rhea.
For more
on Katy Dalal’s books.
For more on
Dalal enterprises and to order from them visit the Dalal Enterprises Facebook Page (be sure to
order from them, you will not regret it!)
or Email Kurush at kurushdalal@gmail.com
or call +919820136511
